Attorney-turned-journalist Shari Dunn now focuses her energy on challenging the relentless forms of institutional racism that are prevalent in the workforce today.

Raised in a working-class, blue-collar, African American neighborhood in the US state of Wisconsin, Shari Dunn was the first in her family to graduate from college or law school. Thanks to the dedication of her mother, along with some luck and a lot of hard work, she was able to attend Marquette University, study abroad in Mexico and London and enter the world with the clear understanding that; “I belong in any room that I am in.” Over the years, she has interviewed civil rights icons Harry Belafonte and Julian Bond and has been a guest on the Oprah Winfrey show. She’s even been a contestant on the TV show ‘Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?’. Here, she tells us more about her life and what led her to write her new book ‘QUALIFIED: How Competency Checking and Race Collide at Work’.

Can you start by telling us a bit about yourself and what led you to write your latest book?
I have had a long and varied career. I started life as an attorney, specializing in divorce and custody for victims of domestic violence. I then went to Washington D.C. and worked in policy for legal services attorneys. After that I moved to New York, where I ran a sub-foundation of Atlantic Philanthropies, the former owners of Duty Free Shoppers, for almost five years before becoming a journalist. I was a news anchor for a decade while running a series of nonprofits and teaching at a university here in Portland. More recently, I became a consultant in diversity, equity and inclusion.

 I wrote ‘QUALIFIED: How Competency Checking and Race Collide at Work’ partly because of my own experiences as a black woman in the workplace, but also because of the experiences brought to me as a consultant. I’ve heard the same stories over and over and it very quickly became apparent that it is not coincidence. We all know that there are issues around race and gender in the workplace, but a lot of people don’t understand the extent. Someone had to get them out in the open – and that’s my aim with this book.

 2. Why do you believe that worthy, diverse candidates are currently being ignored? 
The starting point is the assumption that black and other people of color are less qualified. Because of these assumptions, diverse candidates are being held to higher, more complex standards to get a job, keep a job and advance in a job. Not only this, but those higher standards narrow the pool, so you have less people who can meet standards that not everyone is asked to meet, and there is also more extreme pressure put on the people who are in the system to consistently perform at a level that other people are not being asked to perform at.

At the same time, we have what I call competency checking. Competency checking is the way in which black and other people of color are forced to confirm and prove their intelligence, expertise and knowledge in the workplace as well as more generally in society. This is witnessed even before people are hired. For example, we know through data that there is name bias – so resumes featuring names that are perceived as foreign or ‘black-sounding’ get less views.

What’s frustrating is that a lot of initiatives around diversity, equity and inclusion are about getting unqualified people jobs. But, certainly in my view, this isn’t addressing the real problem.

What are the consequences of competency checking in the modern workplace?

Again and again, black and other people of color are asked to prove their right to be in spaces – particularly in leadership roles. They have to confirm and perform at an extremely high level. But they also must prove, through identification and information, that they know what they know. They are questioned more vigorously about their knowledge and information. It might happen casually. It might happen formally. But it happens continuously.

Oftentimes, if a black person says something, the answer from their white colleagues isn’t “I didn’t know that”. Instead, it’s “How do you know that?”. This is competency checking in a nutshell. It’s the idea that you’re not supposed to know things. It’s this constant assumption of lack of intelligence and knowledge. It’s the need to prove yourself at every step. You can be at work and you can do great jobs, yet – and I call this the eternal sunshine of the spotless mind – every day you have to start again, proving your competency.

The consequences of this are severe. Right now, we are seeing extreme shedding in the workplace, specifically of black women. Black women’s unemployment rates have shot up and that has been going on since 2023. Not only this, but the extreme pressure black and other people of color are under is causing physical and emotional problems. People are being pushed out of the workplace for not meeting a standard that nobody else has to meet. This results in both unemployment and a lack of talent.

5. Can you share any personal experiences of competency checking? 
I have many, but one I mention in the book is when a white woman asked me to talk to her group about impostor syndrome. So I gave her my vision of imposter syndrome – that it is actually a misidentification, and that the original research wasn’t that great. The original research was done in the 70s on the first vanguard of upper- to middle-class white women in professional workplaces. None of the issues related to the patriarchy, sexism or white supremacy were highlighted in that original research. Instead, it was the women’s faulty thinking and perfectionism. Perfectionism, we know, is a part of white supremacy, especially for white women.

My problem with the original research is it wasn’t very good at identifying what was going on. And now we have a situation where everybody claims they have impostor syndrome. All of us can feel insecure sometimes. All of us can feel like we don’t belong. Those are normal human feelings. But they’re not a syndrome. And actually, what most people are identifying as impostor syndrome is actually the consequences of being in spaces and places where there are not people like you, and you are made to feel you don’t belong. And the answer to that is not self-talk, but collective action to make these spaces and places more reflective of you so that you feel more comfortable in them.

So that’s what I said to this woman. She was literally speechless for a period and then, after a minute, she said: “Well, I’ve never heard that. I had somebody tell me that if you don’t admit to having impostor syndrome, then you are either a liar or a narcissist.” Then it was my turn to be blown away.

At the end of the conversation, she said: “Well, can you send me your information and send me the links to back up what you’ve said.” At no point did it occur to her to ask the person who told her the truly faulty information – that if you don’t admit to having impostor syndrome, then you are either a liar or a narcissist – to back up their point of view. I had to prove what I was saying, but she was totally comfortable with somebody painting entire populations who don’t agree with this as liars and narcissists!

6. What are the differences in the presence/impact of competency checking in different parts of the world?
There’s a chapter in the book called ‘It’s not just black or white or American’. I looked at the UK, France and Canada, as well as the US, and, unfortunately, it all looks very similar. In France, for example, the issue shows up as people of color having to prove their ‘Frenchness’. How French are they? Are they French enough? And then in Canada, you see the same kind of issues, numbers and discussions as you do in the US. What’s clear is that anywhere colonialism goes, it has set up a hierarchy of intelligence and the pinnacle of that intelligence is whiteness. A French writer said that to colonize people, you must convince them they are not as intelligent as you. That’s part of the deal.

This all tells me that, in addition to us working on these issues in the United States, there needs to be global action around the right to work, and the ability to be in the workplace and move forward. As one of my friends recently said, black livelihoods matter.

7. What would you say to leaders who believe that any lack of diversity in positions is due to empty or broken talent pipelines?
The talent pipeline isn’t broken or empty. It’s actually blocked by competency checking, prestige bias and – in some cases – plain systemic racism.

Leaders need to investigate the ways in which they are constructing blockages in those talent pipelines, because that’s actually the issue. One of the blockages that we don’t talk about is that the pipeline is a more formal entry point. But there’s a whole separate entry point which is referral-based hiring. Here in the US, referral-based hiring accounts for 30-40% of hires and almost exclusively benefits white people.

Employers really need to think about this. One thing I often ask the companies I consult for is, “Do you want to be Blockbuster, or do you want to be Netflix?” Companies often think they’re too big to fail, but the thing is, nothing is permanent. And if you ignore where the market is now, and where the market will be in the future, then you are signaling that you are more interested in a Blockbuster outcome.

8. What steps can business leaders take to mitigate and eliminate barriers to diverse talent in the workplace?

Business leaders need to look at their data, particularly around advancement in their company and promotions.

Someone I was coaching had worked at an organization for a shorter period of time than a white colleague. They were both up for a promotion, but the white applicant did not have the advanced degree or the specialized knowledge that she had. The employer gave the benefit of the doubt to the white applicant and then allowed the white applicant to get the advanced degree and acquire the necessary skills.

It’s a situation we see time and time again. So, it’s important that employers figure out who gets promoted and, as part of that, who they are giving the benefit of the doubt to. What education levels and skills are possessed by the people currently within their organization? Do they even know?

The Economic Policy Institute found that black people with advanced degrees and advanced skills are underemployed, meaning they are frequently in positions that do not require or are not commensurate with their level of education and skill. So that means that if companies were to audit their businesses, they might find people within their business who they could advance.

It is true that there are fewer black and other people of color at an executive level, but not because they don’t have the skills or experience. In fact, Korn Ferry found that there are plenty of people out there with the skills, they’re just not getting through. What I suggest companies do is consider lateral up hiring – go to other companies that have black and other people of color at the director or managing director level, bring them over to you and level them up to VP.

Finally, companies must continue to assert their right to do diversity training within their businesses. Companies must realize that it is in their best interest to have a diverse workforce that works well together. To work well together, we must understand each other. Training can really help with this.